CCTA Plays Featured:

Here in the Long Now

by Isla Cowan

Show Links

Publications, Research & Reports

• “AI and the festivals” Report – https://www.venue13.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/AI-and-the-Festivals.pdf
• Alan Turing Institute, doing AI differently – https://www.turing.ac.uk/news/publications/doing-ai-differently
• Michel Bastian: Academic whose concept of “chrono-washing” inspired Isla Cowan’s play – https://read.dukeupress.edu/environmental-humanities/article/16/2/403/389141/Is-Long-Term-Thinking-a-Trap-Chronowashing

Featured Shows, Companies, & Artists

• Shakespeare Dice: As You Like It: An immersive honky-tonk adaptation by Dacha Theatre from Seattle
• Luscinia: A gothic folk musical adaptation of Ovid by Ars Longa from Toronto, written by Cam Wright
• Otuz Bir: A politically fierce new play addressing the Istanbul Convention written/directed by Melisa Altug
• Define Queerness: A verbatim theatre piece by the Define Queerness Collective
• The 40 Year Old Ballerina: A solo comedy by Philadelphia-based fringe veteran Chris Davis
• Sister Sophia Kicks the Habit: A solo show by The Universe Over Sixty (Toronto), led by Lisa Randall
• She/They: A queer sketch comedy show by Montreal-based duo Bronwyn Farkas and Sophie Jean
• Drum and Bass Aerobics Experience : A dance fitness movement founded by Emma Smallman
• Wiener Beacon: An absurdist comedy-drama by Sheer Hysterics written by Alexa Laliberté
• The Gas Station at the Edge of the Universe: An absurdist horror play by Wormwood Theatre written by Trinity Tacknyk
• A.I. Campfire [Return]: Venue 13’s own production blending Scottish folklore and AI, featuring the AI database Symbioline

Transcript

Ian Hello and welcome back to podcast thirteen. I’m Ian..

Vanesa …and I’m Vanesa and we have arrived. This is episode ten.

Ian Ten episodes. Honestly, when we started doing this, we said we’d see how the first three went.

Vanesa And here we are, ten episodes deep with a properly enormous announcement to mark the occasion.

Ian Today is the day that we reveal the full Venue 13programme for August of twenty twenty six. Got eleven shows. This includes five world premieres. We’ve got a number of companies making their fringe debut and doing it with us at venue thirteen.

Vanesa Yes, and we have a variety of international candidates here. We’ve got seven productions from Canada, two from the USA, and we have two from the UK. So we have from immersive karaoke bar Shakespeare, two gothic folk musical Ovid. We have a queer sketch comedy and then one hundred and seventy bpm drum, bass, Arabic phrase, and as well as a forty year old man in a tutu and an aging nun. Can you believe Ian? And then we will close every night with Venue Thirteen’s production of A.I. Campfire [Return], an AI-database sharing climate-focused Scottish folklore.

Ian We’re going to take you through each of the shows in this episode. We’ve grouped them so that some of those connections come through. So we’ve got eleven shows, one episode.

Vanesa But first, we want to talk about a really important piece of new research that has landed at exactly the right moment for our program. Let’s dive in. Now, before we get to the shows, we wanted to flag a publication that arrived this May from Festivals Edinburgh. It’s called AI and the festivals, and it is a collection of think pieces from University of Edinburgh academics with a closing contribution from Janette Roush, which is the chief AI officer, brand USA. The Edinburgh Futures Institute helped pull it all together with funding support from EventScotland. Why, Ian, tell us, why are we leading the programme announcement with this paper specifically, what makes it quite important?

Ian Well, it’s perhaps the most substantive look at AI in the Edinburgh Festival to come from inside the festival ecosystem itself. If you had eleven different essays, each coming from different academic specialization, there’s no editorial line imposed. It’s all the opinions and the thinking of the people who are contributing to it, but trying to look at what’s happening across the festival and how that’s intersecting with AI. So one of those contributors includes Professor Drew Hemment, who wrote an article, festivals in AI shaping AI Futures Through cultural practice. And that opens up the the collection. I’ve got Dr Vaishak Belle on what the festivals need to know. Dr Caterina Moruzzi on AI trust and festival communications Dr Vikki Jones on making performances with AI Dr Hajar Mozaffar on going beyond humans in the loop. Joshua Ryan-Saha makes a lovely case that the boring side of AI might be the most useful side of AI for Edinburgh festivals. Notably, I want to say drew, but Hemant’s piece notes a huge moment. In April of twenty twenty six, Arts Council England formally recognised Digital Arts as its tenth supported art form, the first new art form in decades. So from April twenty twenty seven, we’ll have its own dedicated portfolio. Art show campfire gets a mention in one of the articles by Emma Dorfman, who has done a little bit of work with or trying to do some of our networking work with as well. And there’s a mention of Vini thirteen as a venue who is open to looking at AI artwork. Obviously we have our own show there too. So we’ve got a lot of things going on at the venue, obviously not just AI, as you’ll see in this episode, many different approaches there, but it’s something that we’re actively part of that conversation. You’ve heard us, if you’ve been listening to the podcast, you’ve heard us talk about the AI conversations that we’ve been in as artists producing work with it, and it’s nice to see these conversations happening and, you know, validates a lot of what we’ve been doing because the fact that we have a place where some artists can approach us with work like that, and we have our own work and both got a mention sort of buried within everything else, so much longer. Report something that you should take a look at. So that’s really nice for us to be validated. Um, you know, Vanesa, are there any other aspects of it that stood out to you on, on reading it?

Vanesa Yeah, absolutely. I know we are very proud to have been mentioned on this. This is like you were, you were mentioning it’s pure research. So we didn’t really have a say on this. It just means that our work has, you know, become noticed by all of these people. And then, you know, they found the venue as one of the very few venues that are having the conversation about AI and how to address AI for the future and perhaps a more ethical way or, you know, just to take in all the considerations, I don’t think there are many venues, um, you know, with that kind of identity as well as other identities that we have, which is the inclusivity, accessibility, sustainability, and being artists first. We also have like a link to our show. So in Hammett’s essay, which is rooted in the Alan Turing Institute doing AI differently work, and there’s the same framework. It’s exactly what our new show closing show program, AI compile Return, will be built around. So it’s a Scottish festival paper, it’s a. Citing a Scottish research initiative mapping on to a Scottish folklore performance at our venue and taking one of the venues identities as being one of the few venues of the franchise exploring the possibilities it is. It’s a huge deal for us and we’re very, very proud to have been mentioned.

Ian Yeah, it’s definitely worth a read. It’s free, you know, Creative Commons license out there being put out there through Festivals Edinburgh and downloaded from the festival’s Edinburgh site, and we’ll put a link to it in the show notes. I think that if you are in either of these conversations or any of these conversations, there are few here. Performance, AI, Edinburgh festivals. It’s something that I wouldn’t be surprised if it comes across your networks, so don’t sleep on it.

Vanesa Brilliant. And now to the programme itself. We are going to start with two productions that take classical texts and turn them upside down. We’re going to call them the reimagined classics. This is, you know, they turn them. They reimagine them in a completely different way. One is a karaoke bar and the other one is based on, you know, set in the Great Depression.

Ian Yeah. So we’ve got the Edinburgh Fringe debut for Seattle company Dacha Theatre. They’re going to be doing an immersive karaoke bar like honky tonk reimagining of As You Like It, where the Forest of Arden is now at this neon lit cowboy bar western bar. There’s going to be a real bar. We’ve going to have drinks. We’re working on lining up exactly what those are. But you’re also going to have lined up on line dancing shepherds and lovesick cowboys as part of it as well. So introducing that part of it as well. It is. It is Shakespeare Dice: As You Like It. What the dice part is important here. What that means is that every person in this show has rehearsed every role, and at the top of every performance, the audience rolls dice to randomly decide who’s going to play everybody. So you never know when you come in, who’s going to be Rosalyn? Who’s going to be Orlando? The rest of the people in there. So no two performances are ever going to be alike, right? There’s also a pay what you can ethos as well. So there’s on Tuesdays and Wednesdays of their run, they’re running from the top of the fringe on August the seventh until the twenty third. So doing a full two week run at the front, the front, two thirds of the festival on the Tuesday and Wednesday, they’ll be doing pay what you can, which you can reserve in advance to through the through the fringe box office. And we invite audience to come in, grab a drink and stay for a bit of two step their their previous show, Romeo and Juliet running with dice that ran for six times in Seattle and really built the following. So we’re really excited. This is the first time that that format has left the US that they’re bringing it abroad, and we’re really excited that they decided to work on it with us at venue thirteen. This is a unique way. I mean, lots of people play with Shakespeare. Sometimes it feels like the most revolutionary thing that someone can do with a Shakespeare production would be to just set it in its original time. So we see a lot of adaptations, but like it does really well at the fringe. What do you think? What do you think Edinburgh audiences during the fringe are gonna fall in love with with this production?

Vanesa What I like about this production is, and you know, the listener, the listeners will know, they will already be listening and be like, I would be up for seeing a Shakespeare play. And some people will say, I would not be up for Shakespeare play. And it’s just like that. You, you know, to some people, theatre means the classics. And to some people they’re like, no, I want to go and see something new. I wanna see some comedy. I want to see some acrobatics. And what I love about this is that it’s actually making this the classics more accessible, more engaging, more entertaining. And, you know, it’s still the classics. And I really appreciated that. It’s, you know, casting a more inclusive and broad, basically aspect of this and welcoming new audiences into a genre that maybe they would just skip over. The fringe itself is a spiritual home of theatre that is like original, unique and challenging. And it challenges the norm. And I do believe that this specifically this company is challenging the norm and is making it fun. You know, we can see here that audience participation is actually going to change your show every single night. And that I think the important thing is that the compelling case for why the Shakespeare doesn’t need a heritage grade interpretation, it will land. And, you know, the stories are so timeless that they will carry through and they’ll carry through in new settings, such as the ones such as Paradise. Now for show two, we have Luscinia by Ars Longa, Toronto, Canada, written by Cam Wright. Now this is an Edinburgh Fringe debut as a world premiere at venue thirteen, and it’s a gothic folk musical adaptation of Odette Ovid’s myth of Philumena and Procne, but it’s relocated to the American South during the Great Depression. So again, we are going with the traditional, we’re going with the something classic, but we’re putting it somewhere else in a different location. Two sisters are attempting to escape the fundamentalist cult of a charismatic preacher called Bo. The title refers to a genus of Nightingale, the Luscinia, which is the bird that phenomena becomes in Ovid and Ovid, after her voice is stolen. So she. You know, she becomes a bird, she becomes a Luscinia. The music braids a bit. Folk with Gothic Americana, which is bright, rhythmic and a little bit uneasy. So it’s got that kind of goth undertone to it. Ian putting Shakespeare next to Ovid is the most theatre school dinner party sentence I’ve ever had to say. But stay with me there. What do you think links these two pieces beyond the obvious that they both used to be on a syllabus?

Ian It’s true. But I think that anybody coming to these is going to come at them and take something very different away than they might have done if they read it in high school or saw a production. One hundred percent. Yeah. Both of these companies are, you know, they’re taking something that is classic, like the quote unquote canon, and they’re taking those raw materials and they are, in both cases, creating something very unique and different with it, like it is its own show. This is like very much that there’s the foundation in that those are like timeless storytelling. You know, we see a lot of recurring stories throughout history, but they’re doing in really interesting ways, which I think talk a lot about, you know, the context in which they’re being presented, like making them contemporary like this, you know, with the flexibility of the Shakespeare based format and the idea that like anybody could play anybody in here. And there was sort of like dynamics of, you know, the comedies are ultimately sort of, you know, and a lot of theatres about the relationships with each other. So it gives you a chance to like, look at those in very different ways, different people that, you know, you don’t know who sort of anybody from that company. And then you’re going to read a different read on that. And I think that’s really interesting around the way that we talk about just like identity today, right? And the way that we relate to one another. And then there was a really, you know, and making that really fun as well. So and then this, this idea of updating Ovid, right? Is, is, is similarly about like, I mean, it’s, it’s more serious as a topic. And, you know, it’s not randomized from twice as well. But this idea of, you know, even though it’s, we’re looking at at the Great Depression and not that I’m going to like overtly liken it to such, but I think that, you know, looking back this, this last year, Like sinners, there’s something about this era, like in this nation and this relationship of people and power dynamics that is, is, you know, we’re we’re seeing right now here. And I think that that both of these companies, you know, they’re being really playful and they’re doing something interesting with it, but it’s not just for the purpose of, you know, they didn’t just like pull this out of a hat. The dice might be random for who’s playing who, but they are picking shows and picking ways of expressing these shows and conceptualizing them in ways that are getting us to think about what’s what’s happening around us now. And, you know, that’s I think what makes the story is timeless, why we still do study them. And we might read them in either theatre, school or high school or wherever is because there’s something to take from it. And I’m really excited for how they’re updating these, setting them in these places now so that we can see how these stories resonate with audiences today.

Vanesa Thank you. I think that’s a really good reflection there. And yes, I’m also very excited to see that. And it’s true you’re saying something about the stories that transcend time and transcend place. So yes, this is going to be very exciting. A couple of shows to book and yeah, keeping your calendar. And for the second group, I’ve decided on two plays and I’ve put them under sort of like body voice and a bit of politics. Right. So it takes us further into that question of the voice and these two productions that come at the politics of the body from completely different angles.

Ian Yeah. The first of these is, well, they’re both coming from Toronto and we have a good relationship. The people of journalists are excited to bring in more people from there. But the first is Otuz Bir, which is Turkish for thirty one by owner to company in in coming from Toronto. But writer and director Melisa Altug is of Turkish descent and this is another. It’s a fringe debut. Yes. And it’s it’s proper professional world premiere as well at venue thirteen. And it tells the story of a young Turkish Canadian woman, Denise, reconnecting with her own body after experiencing sexual trauma. And this is set against the backdrop of Turkey withdrawing in twenty twenty one from the Istanbul Convention, which is on preventing violence against women. Right. Which is is really interesting because they’re actually it’s it’s called the Istanbul Convention because it was agreed to in Istanbul. And they were actually the first country to sign the treaty. And then also then the first to leave it as well. So you’ve got characters on stage, name for parts of the body that that refuse to be kept silent. Right in the brain. Vagina. Vulva. Clit. The title is Turkish Slang. It’s thirty one for masturbation, which also means and is expressed as the number thirty one. And you know, it’s a funny it’s politically fierce new play. It’s making some it’s already been making some relationships with like the Scottish Turkish community as well and connecting with other shows on that. So it really brings this like unique Turkish Canadian diasporic voice to the fringe, which is something that I think that we rarely hear on the UK stages and will resonate with people as already is because it’s connecting to local, the local Turkish community as well. And that’s how I found out it’s actually going to be some other Turkish and Turkish politics informed plays at the fringe, because they’ve already started talking about it. You know, Vanesa in in bringing this show in, like, you know, what do you think matters about having this, this show at the fringe specifically.

Vanesa I think this is a very timely show to have in this day and age, you know, for for women, for women presenting people. I do believe that we are living in very difficult times, actually around the world politically, where, you know, all of the rights that we fought so hard for many years, our ancestors and, you know, past generations fought to get. They’re being taken away and they’re being taken away in different parts of the world. And, you know, this is going to cause a regression, a regression and oppression. And I do believe that more shows like this are very they’re very crucial because the theatre is a voice and the voice, you know, brings about action. And I think it’s important to Turkish women, to other women, women from other, you know, basically demographics to know that this is something that’s happened, you know, to sign out of a treaty that prevents violence against women. That is outrageous, and it must have brought so much pain and suffering since it’s happened. And what else is happening around the world? What other, you know, rights are being taken away, you know, from women, from children, for for female presenting people. And it’s really important that we stick together, especially at once, especially at this time, and that we celebrate pieces of work like this and others that are going to come that reminds us that we’re not alone.

Ian Yeah, I think, I think it’s it’s interesting with various various parts of Edinburgh in the centre, sort of turning a little bit into a wizard boy gift shop areas that knowing the politics associated with that, that it’s important to, to have the have these conversations so that we continue to, to sit with the complexity of a city that isn’t enjoying tourism for both fringe and, you know, exciting theatre like this, as well as other pieces of writing that might have had their origins within Edinburgh without naming names.

Vanesa Oh, absolutely. And I think it’s it’s very important. As I said, the Istanbul Convention conversation is, is alive. It’s an urgent European story. It rarely gets told in in Edinburgh stages. And this is diaspora Theatre that holds the two political realities at once. You have the Turkish, the Canadian. But as I said, it’s also a global issue on, you know, on different, um, sort of like different countries as well. Um, and the choice to make a play, you know, put, put the Turkish thing aside as well, the choice to make a play about reconnecting with your body after it has been violated in one way or another. It’s very important because it’s actually, again, given validation visibility to so many women whose stories are, you know, potentially similar to the ones of Denise. And, you know, how do you reconnect to to your own body, which is the house that you have to live in, and how do you make it better? I think this is an incredibly important play and I’m really looking forward to it.

Ian Yeah. So what’s the what’s what’s it well, paired with for the purposes of our episode, at least.

Vanesa For the purposes of this episode, we are pairing it with Define Queerness. This is created by the Define Queerness Collective. Toronto, Canada. This is also a fringe debut from Toronto based Emerging Collective formed around this work. Specifically, this is a device verbatim theatre piece, and I love this because it’s built from the transcript of recorded interviews with two queer couples, and it is a warm and self-asserting piece which talks about, you know, the first exposures to queerness, first loves, first arguments, small domestic pleasures, and the mechanics of being out in a relationship without necessarily the pressure to explain yourself. So this is, you know, a political move based in joy. So verbatim, theatre traditionally leans into investigative and difficult. But this one tilts towards queer joy. And in this day and age in twenty twenty six, that itself is a political stance. You know this reflect on the joy to be who we can be. And it is created and performed by Charlie Vanstone and Grey Baker. Ian, what is it about pairing Otuz Bir and define queerness in our program that you know, that makes you like hopeful, I guess, or excited for a program this year?

Ian Yeah. Well, I think that both are interesting because sort of in opposing ways, they each, um, there are a few sort of the dominant tone that the form expects that refuses to be solemn. Like it’s, it’s engaging things. I, I feel like I say playful a lot, but in the way that they’re putting it together, it’s, uh, you know, there’s a bit of tongue in cheek. There’s, there’s definitely humor in there. And, you know, uh, the links that it’s making in the context of something, you know, really like politically hot, I think is interesting. So it refuses to be solemn about that. Right. And then on the other hand, just as you’re saying, like define queerness refuses to be tragic, right? That it’s looking at those apologies, but looking at really, really leaning into the queer joy. So there’s, there’s, there’s a lot of like inclusion and complexity about both of these, about understanding where somebody is and sort of like these, especially in sort of like hybrid areas of, of trying to figure out where someone like lives in the world and the politics of the world with in response to like, you know, things that just inborn in themselves, right? So both building on on real literal history testimony and real research and real lived experience. And I think one, one thing actually, just because I want to make sure that it gets said at some point, one of the things that I think is exciting about defining queerness in particular, is that that’s going to be an entirely relaxed run. Like all of the shows that we have are going to have relaxed performances for it. But Charlie and Gray have committed to having every one of their performances as a relaxed performance. So really upping on the inclusion there.

Vanesa You tell us a bit more about relaxed performances and what does that.

Ian Yeah. So a relaxed performance can then feature a number of things. It’s really about making a performance much more welcoming to people with perhaps different forms of neurodiversity. And so usually like hallmark features that you’ll see in a relaxed performance is that, uh, you know, you have introductions beforehand so that people know what’s what’s happening. Sometimes you’ll go about changing some of the tech around to sort of like even things out. So there’s less like jarring and startling things. So it’s not really like, you know, it involves you going through the entire performance to sort of see like, how can we, how can we make this so that, uh, easy for somebody who might have a different ways of processing information to be able to enjoy it, uh, how sites tend to stay up at least somewhat for it. People will be able to come and go. It’ll be a bit of a, we’ll, we’ll have a sort of like chill out area just in case things get intense. I mean, it’s meant to be around queer joy, but you know, it’s, we’re trying to make it so that it’s sensory inclusive as well. And many people who might otherwise be worried that a theatrical experience could be like upsetting beyond the content, just beyond like, you know, uh, it.

Vanesa Sounds like it’s like a like a warm, fuzzy invitation. Come and join us for, you know, warm, you know, self supporting, you know, nostalgic, you know, like just full of, uh, chilled out vibes, you know, it’s like, I think I’m really excited about the, the whole tone of this show.

Ian Yeah, it’s really a perfect one, I think, for taking that approach to it too, because it really is about becoming comfortable in that, uh, identity. And so they want people to be comfortable and are building the show around that. It’s not just something that they’re adding on to it, but it’s the way that the show is actually built. On the subject of, of, of people coming into their own, we’ve got another group of, of solo work, a few, a couple solo pieces that are coming in. Can you tell us about those?

Ian There’s different shows, two different shows, two different shows.

Vanesa Although they do sound like it would make a very good show.

Ian I’m looking forward to that. We’ll talk to them for twenty twenty seven to do a crossover show. Yeah. Which which is entirely possible because actually both of these shows are not necessarily both. Edinburgh Fringe veterans, but definitely they’re veteran performers in different strange environments. Now, the first one, the forty year old ballerina is by Chris Davis, written, starring, and he’s a fringe veteran. He’s brought a lot of work over before. This is his first work back since the festival. Didn’t happen in person for a couple of years there during, you know, Covid nineteen. And he’s normally based in Philadelphia. So this is this is bringing the forty year old ballerina. He’s done other ballet shows. He did a one man Nutcracker before, but this is going to be premiering at, uh, twenty thirteen. He was a regular since twenty fourteen until twenty nineteen. Right. So coming for a number of years there with shows that if you’ve been going to the French for a while, you may have seen Drunk Lion, One Man, Apocalypse Now, silence of the lambs. And so this is his first, this is his return. And it’s going to be his seventh year. It’s been, I think that the math math’s in the way that I think it is. It’s been seven festivals or seven years since he’s been back, but it makes it his seventh year. It’s fifty minute solo comedy and and created it. It’s about when he was forty, forty plus that Davis is sort of like swapping the usual.

Vanesa Or is he more than forty?

Ian Is that more than forty? Yeah, he’s the he’s the show. It’s about a time of his life. Right. So there’s a little bit of personal level work too, but he’s, uh, swapping these usual suspects like, you know, in tasting things, drugs, alcohol, uh, modern family reruns, toxic tropes from John Cusack movies from the nineties. Right. And replacing those with ballet class. So he’s using a bar ballet bar for support and mixing dance and storytelling in a way that he’s really talented at doing it. Uh, you know, part of his inspiration to come back was he’s been touring this, this, uh, one man nutcracker now for a while. And, and it’s really like getting to the heart of that change is always possible, right? So asking those who are coming in the audience to look past that to, to into themselves and their demons, uh, and, uh, come see what’s gonna be great. Like his previous work, four or five stars, four stars in the list, you know, described as the kind of innovative spirit that the fringe was originally created to showcase. So, you know, I think they once said that we were the fringe as God intended or that was three weeks. That’s a comment on venue thirteen. So, you know, an obvious match, a clear.

Vanesa Mismatch between that show and our venue.

Ian Another good match because of our affiliation with Canongate. Kirk is is this nut not that there’s nuns in the Church of Scotland, but you know.

Vanesa That’s true. Uh, we can move on to the next show, which is also a solo show. A sister Sophia kicks the habit. This is created by the universe over sixty. Absolutely love the name of that organization from Toronto, Canada. Basically, Toronto based company led by writer performer Lisa Randall. The Universe Over sixty is dedicated to stories about women over the age of sixty. The company name. It’s its manifesto. It also is a sixty minute show and a one man show. Across a single, restless night, Sister Sophia confronts God, grapples with her sisterhood, and finds herself arriving somewhere unexpected by the morning. It’s the. In the rigorous tradition of the Catholic, you know, solo shows, the great Catholic solo shows that I know you probably know many of them is titled towards a distinct experience of being a woman in her sixties with a vocation and a few uncomfortable or existential questions. Existing press quotes by Hamilton City magazine called it witty, curious and easy to root for. A stellar performance from the very talented Lisa Randall as well from The Hammer Monthly we’ve got Randall has a hell of a voice now, Ian, what does it. So what do we want the audience to take away from this solo performances?

Ian Well, I think it says that, uh, twenty thirteen is a place for people of all ages, midlife and, uh, and beyond. So we’ve got upcoming companies and we’ve got these shows. I think I didn’t realize this, but, uh, you know, they got grouped together because of the the solo like turning points in that. But they are talking about specific points and people’s lives, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Vanesa And I have something quite nice to say about this. And I think it’s worth saying it in the podcast because why not? So David Attenborough has turned one hundred years old.

Ian Congratulations.

Vanesa Congratulations to him, you know, and many more, shall we say. But the nicest thing about this is that essentially, you know, he used to really love Legos and Legos. Slogan always said it was from year one to ninety nine, and they’ve changed it for him. They’ve changed it from year one to one hundred so that he can continue playing Lego.

Ian I feel like there’s a there’s a meme out there that there was somebody I can’t remember who it is. I’ll find it and I’ll try and put it on the page to put it to me. And I was like, oh, it means that, uh, you know, so and so can’t play with Lego anymore. And, uh, that’s, that’s, uh, I still play with Lego. It’s all over the house. It’s there in, in, in both of these shows. You know, we’ve got comedy and confession somewhat literally. And one of them like sitting Beautiful together with a with an honest writer talking about like the different phases of life and, and how that change is coming. So whether or not, you know, they both have their, their, uh, accessories, their clothing, I don’t know if like a two, two and a habit, are they an accessory? Are they an item of clothing like an additional somewhere in between those? But those are, you know, not just not just costumes for the shows. They’re costumes for transformation and commitment to change, which I think is really saying something for, for these veteran performers. Right? I think we’re only going to get quality work that we’re gonna see with them. Uh, Sister Sophia actually is also doing, I think they’re closing on August twenty first, and that’s partly because it’s got a tour on. So catch that one while you can. Chris will be there every day. Possible for their um, yeah, for the full run venue is closed on on Mondays, so he’ll be performing six days a week with us.

Vanesa That’s a lot of ballet to fit in six days a week. That’s amazing.

Ian Yeah, we’ll see what happens. I don’t know if he does point if he does point. Yeah.

Vanesa I’m excited about that actually. Now, maybe it’ll inspire me to take up something. I was thinking maybe like rollerblades. That’d be quite cool.

Ian I think that’s cool. Is there anywhere bigger given the floor? I’d say.

Vanesa Anywhere bigger.

Ian Yeah, we could do like, a roller rink.

Vanesa We could do roller disco next year. That’ll be something.

Ian We can, we can, I think. I think we need a bigger space for it or very limited audience. It’s a it’s a it’s a it’s a one on one immersive roller disco show.

Vanesa We can think about this. We can think about this.

Ian Yeah. Keep, keep, keep an eye on this, an ear on this space.

Vanessa Absolutely. Watch this space.

Vanesa So now for group four, I’ve decided to put these two shows because they’re completely different, but they also count as comedy with an edge. So comedy, but not just any comedy. Right. So we have a queer sketch duo from Montreal, and we also have an one hundred and seventy bpm German based aerobics rave from Birmingham. You would say that has nothing to do with each other, but you know what it has to do with each other is the laughs. So if that’s not fringe energy, I don’t know what it is.

Ian Yeah. So the the first she they which is from Bronwyn Farkas and Sophie Jean. They’re coming from Montreal, Canada. They spend a lot of time in Toronto too. This is their Edinburgh Fringe debut. But that hardly means this is the first time that they’ve been seen. It’s the world premiere of the Edinburgh show itself, but they perform a lot. They do sketch and improv and occasional stand up when it’s a full moon. So you know you’re not getting stand up comedians here. This is more towards the sketch end of show. It is. She is a one woman show. It’s their own three word pitch that it’s, you know, it’s a chaotic, queer and chronically offline tribute to to navigating those politics that you can see. They’ve, uh, they’ve spent a lot of time in Montreal, which for comedy fans, you’re probably familiar that that is a hub for that. So they’ve had sold out shows at just for laughs in Montreal, sort of like some of the top end of the worldwide comedy community. They’re also best of the fest and best New troupe at the Montreal Sketchfest they’ve won Montreal Theatresports and Toronto Sketchfest as well. This is one of the most decorated and upcoming sketch acts in the Canadian indie comedy circuit right now, and they’re going to make their Edinburgh debut at venue thirteen, and you might see them in some other places around town too. They’re trying to see. That’s amazing. Yeah.

Vanesa That’s fantastic. So tell me about it. What is it about Bronwyn and Sophie that made us, you know, really say, this is this is a show for us. Let’s get them on the program.

Ian Yeah. I think, like, they have a very distinct voice. It like, feels properly around. They’re not really aping anyone. Like, you can tell where the cleverness is just from the title, right. Calling it she they one woman. And with that tagline of a one woman show, it’s like I’m sold there already. And, and they really leaned into that. So it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, queer comedy that is both genuine and hilarious and coming out of, you know, with a, with a pedigree coming out of the Montreal scene and which is also producing exciting work and has those, those story festivals just for laugh and Sketchfest like Canadians are funny. Just look at the cast of SNL, funny, funny. And these two have a very specific view. Yeah. And so I mean that, you know, another another connection in this grouping of shows is not just the fun, but that you’re getting. It’s like getting. It’s like we’re bringing over maple syrup, bringing over or bringing up drum and bass aerobics from Birmingham. That that seems entirely fitting.

Vanesa Well, you know, I think I cannot contain my excitement anymore. This is one of the ones I am most excited about, especially because I love. I just genuinely love the concept. So basically it’s it is their Edinburgh Fringe debut. They are not a show though. They are not a show. They are a movement. Ian. I do feel like people are going to join this. They’re gonna be like, it’s going to be like, yes, this I found my thing. And they’re just going to like continue following the progression of this company and they’re going to start trying to find the locations, you know, if they’re from abroad, maybe they’re going to be like, you know, when are they coming to my country? Where are they coming to my city? So basically, it is a project that was born and it just spread just because of how good it is. It is the only UK company on the programme. It’s a forty five minute dance fitness party pairing one hundred and seventy bpm, drum and bass with joyful, accessible aerobic choreography. You don’t need to learn how to dance, you will learn there. So we have six rotating routines. Is high impact or low impact, depending on what works for you? It’s you know, wheelchair users are very welcome. And the only rule is that you move and have fun. Founded by Emma, Emma Smallman is a monthly church in Birmingham in October twenty twelve. Now it’s a fixture of UK. First the festival scene, the festival circuit with regular appearances at Shambhala, Blue Dogs Jam and Birmingham Festival in twenty twenty three. We also have Emma and Anu Hawkins as instructors. There are more instructors around the UK though. You should just, you know, go into the website and find your nearest one because it’s amazing. And if not, come on, and try it for yourself. At only thirteen, Emma was a twenty twenty three alumna of the Lucozade Sport Movers List and was featured by MND UK’s Made to Move campaign and Birmingham City Council’s The Girl Can campaign. Now this is what I am very excited about this.

Ian Yeah, it’s one of the most active pieces in the programme. And for folks who are like, is it just to be like, Emma is also like a trauma informed yoga instructor? Like she’s got the credentials for sure. Like she really knows the physiological side of it. And, and also DJ’s as DJ sister small around. So like she comes at it like this is her merging her passions and things that she is like, these are, these are her things. So it is a, it is a special thing to see someone like fuse some things that they are so passionate about together and it’s going to get you to move. This is going to be it’s in the mornings towards the weekend too. So it’s something to help break up your planning to do a marathon weekend of shows in the second and third weekend. So not that opening weekend, but the weekends after that. I come by, it’s going to be not too early in the morning, it’s ten thirty in the morning, but come by and and do that and that and between the between Emma and the drum and bass aerobics experience. And then you got Shakespeare dice. You know, we talk a lot about audiences, observers, and we’re really pushing for something that generally connects with people and makes them part of the show in inclusive ways to like, I personally am not always the biggest fan of audience participation with it. I think with both of these, it’s such an intrinsic part of it and done in a fun and inclusive and not like, you know, no one’s being put on the spot. It is just, let’s have fun and we’re going to move together because we’re sharing space together. I think that that really speaks to the ethos of the type of work that we want to see at the venue.

Vanesa And honestly, I’ll be the first one there with my, you know, with my sneakers on the keys.

Ian You’ve got the keys to the space.

Vanesa I cannot wait, I am very excited about it. So we move on to the next grouping, which I’ve put them at. This next shows I’m going to talk about. They share this absurdist sort of like theatre. They’re both Canadian, so Canadian companies doing absurdist work. It hides serious questions under the surreal surfaces. And I do really want to emphasize that this is quite surreal. So one features two enormous Ontario billboards as characters, and the other features masked creatures at the edge of a small town. So for the first show, we have Wiener Beacon by Sheer Hysterics, Toronto, Canada. It is going to be their Edinburgh Fringe debut, and it’s a strange, warm, absurdist comedy drama inspired by two real roadside billboards in southern Ontario. So for the UK listeners, most of us are. If you drive highway four hundred one from Toronto to Kitchener, the Canadian equivalent of driving from Edinburgh to Glasgow, you will pass two enormous billboards. One is the Schneiders meat brand logo depicting a hot dog, or, as the Americans call it, a wiener. This brand is a ninety year old Canadian institution, and this billboard is looming over this farm field. The other billboard is a plain white one a few kilometres later that reads Jesus Saves. In black capitals with nothing else, Jesus saves. Together they are a Canadian national in-joke, says playwright Alexa Laliberté has turned them into characters. So the story follows Catherine as her car spins out in a snowstorm. So she’s launched from her own life into the tumultuous, intimate world of Schneider and Jesus saves where there are a couple. So she stays at their house. She eats wieners at their table. She listens to their marital problems. And the question underneath this show is, what does it take for a giver to start taking?

Ian Like on paper, this sounds bonkers. Where do you think this is going to work for an Edinburgh audience?

Vanesa But you know, everyone that I’ve spoken about the audience to, to the show about, like everyone that I’ve spoken to, they were like, I really want to see that. And I do believe that sometimes it takes a little bit of like a mental pictogram to understand an analogy or a story. And I think that this is going to do really well with, with the audiences, because there is a real human story behind this. So it’s exactly the kind of premise that the fringe was made for. So specific, weird, locally rooted, and, you know, it’s kind of tender underneath. So what liberty is doing is what good absurdist writers do, which is using this strange surface to ask a serious question. And in this case, it’s about generosity.

Ian It’s true. But I think that anybody coming to these is going to come at them and take something very different away than they might have done if they read it in high school or saw a production. One hundred percent. Yeah. Both of these companies are, you know, they’re taking something that is classic, like the quote unquote canon, and they’re taking those raw materials and they are, in both cases, creating something very unique and different with it, like it is its own show. This is like very much that there’s the foundation in that those are like timeless storytelling. You know, we see a lot of recurring stories throughout history, but they’re doing in really interesting ways, which I think talk a lot about, you’re know, the context in which they’re being presented, like making them contemporary like this, you know, with the flexibility of the Shakespeare based format and the idea that like anybody could play anybody in here. And there was sort of like dynamics of, you know, the comedies are ultimately sort of, you know, and a lot of theatres about the relationships with each other. So it gives you a chance to like, look at those in very different ways, different people that, you know, you don’t know who sort of anybody from that company. And then you’re going to read a different read on that. And I think that’s really interesting around the way that we talk about just like identity today, right? And the way that we relate to one another. And then there was a really, you know, and making that really fun as well. So and then this, this idea of updating Ovid, right? Is, is, is similarly about like, I mean, it’s, it’s more serious as a topic. And, you know, it’s not randomized from twice as well. But this idea of, you know, even though it’s, we’re looking at at the Great Depression and not that I’m going to like overtly liken it to such, but I think that, you know, looking back this, this last year, Luscinia there’s something about this era, like in this nation and this relationship of people and power dynamics that is, is, you know, we’re we’re seeing right now here. And I think that that both of these companies, you’re know, they’re being really playful and they’re doing something interesting with it, but it’s not just for the purpose of, you know, they didn’t just like pull this out of a hat. The dice might be random for who’s playing who, but they are picking shows and picking ways of expressing these shows and conceptualizing them in ways that are getting us to think about what’s what’s happening around us now. And, you know, that’s I think what makes the story is timeless, why we still do study them. And we might read them in either theatre, school or high school or wherever is because there’s something to take from it. And I’m really excited for how they’re updating these, setting them in these places now so that we can see how these stories resonate with audiences today.

Ian Now, there’s a lot of conversations when I’m talking to whether or not they’re coming to the venue, talking to people who are bringing shows to Edinburgh, and they’re always talking about whether or not various elements of their script or that are going to play to Edinburgh audience, to a UK audience like our brands the same, or referring to things like there’s cultural differences, you know, there’s that that. Well, I think it’s oftentimes said about the US, but I say that we can say North America too, right? It’s like it’s, you know, across those continents there, it’s, we’ve got, we’ve got countries separated by a common language, right. Although with Canada, at least we share the monarchy, right? We don’t this is the weird thing. I don’t know if anybody else is going to care about this, but, uh, we we have the same monarchs, but they are separately the monarchs of each of our countries since I think nineteen eighty two. Anyway, what I love about and I’m excited about with Wiener Beacon is that it is so specific that like, it totally makes sense. It works to be specific and keep it rooted within that, like Canadian perspective as a, as a way of like exporting that and making it interesting to the, to the world. So it’s not about like, how do we play for this to be how, how do we play this to be universal? The themes are, but the narrative is, is very specific. And I think I think it’s going to work similarly. And also inspired by, well, not just absurd, except just not on the, the this is more of an absurdist horror approach and also specifically like rooted within rural northern Canada. Right. Is the gas station at the edge of the universe from Wormwood Theatre, also from Toronto. And that and also making their fringe debut. And this is going to be a world premiere. It’s written by Trinity Tacknyk. And so, you know, it has a soft relational center, but ultimately it’s an absurdist horror show where Sawyer, who’s a recent university grad, is returning home to rural northern Canada and reunites with their childhood best friend, Casey. And as soon as they get back, there’s these masked creatures that begin appearing at the edge of the known world. And the the town sort of slides into something unrecognizable. So it’s, it’s a tender two hander about friendships and, and then the distance that time puts between us sort of wearing horror as a skin, I really think that it fits within them. You know, I’m a scaredy cat. I find horror is not usually my genre for movies and that. But I’ve really been making some effort because it’s become like weapons did really well this last year. And going back to like, you’re know, through the appeal work of like, get out and nope. And us and things like that, that, uh, there’s some really compelling stories that are coming out of using those sort of genre types here. And I think that, that that’s true here as well.

Vanesa Yeah. To me, when I, when I read this originally, the first thing that came to mind was a combination of a coming of age film and a really a personal realization of being someone who has emigrated to somewhere else and then being reunited, you know, with the people back home because, you know, once you’re away, you’ve changed, you’ve grown, things happen to you. But then, you know, you could have become this completely different person from the person that’s left. But throughout all of this, this time that you’ve transformed the people back home, they haven’t seen that transformation. So you could come back and be completely, completely different. You know, someone could be asking, who’s this monster that came back, you know, for, you know, for good and for bad. And you could get mixed Reactions. And the reason why this is also a coming of age to me is because soya, you know, has finished, uni has come back. We don’t know if he’s going to stay there or is he going to move out. And I believe that the relations that he builds or rebuilds and reconnects when he’s back home will be a big deciding factor in what he’s going to do with his future?

Ian Yeah, I really think that the, the, the structure that Trinity has brought into here and sort of like this idea of the mask and, and things on that sort of like edge and that sort of like getting into that liminal space is really about, you know, highlights those anxieties, those coming of age anxieties and different relationship anxieties that we have that we can play out through different ways. So interesting to have these emerging Canadian playwrights, young Canadian playwrights with really interesting, confident, distinct voices.

Vanesa To finish up the list. Ian. It’s time. It’s our show. It’s a campfire return now. A campfire premiered in twenty twenty five twenty thirteen, and since then it’s been doing so well. It’s done incredibly well. And it has so much to say beyond, you know, beyond the database. Kelsey Berlin telling you Scottish folklore stories with a climate angle because of all the layers, because she’s an AI because of, you know, because the show has, you know, digital creation on it, because of the climate angle from it and the heritage from Scotland. It has had so many layers that made it tour as far as it has. And that’s why we’re going to continue within the campfire universe. And we’re bringing a campfire return now. Currently it is in a development and production readiness space. We’re working on it from May to December twenty twenty six, and we’re going to try and do an early stage showing in August twenty twenty six, inviting the audiences into the process this year. The story blends Scottish folklore, ecological themes, environmentally responsible, generative AI intelligence, and we’re going to continue with Cymbeline as our character. She’s our AI powered database, but this time we’re going to have a look at to look into her origin story and how she got tasked to be, how she was created and how she got tasked with this huge task that she has of preserving in central Scottish tales. This iteration will also look at Scottish classics, Cailleagh and Bridget. So it’s like Bridget Bride. There are two very Scottish folk entities which cast a big impact on the seasons, and we’re also going to look at how the climate is affecting that and their lives and their realms. So this is a project that brings the AI and the festival research full circle. Ian, do you want to tell our listeners how, how it works, how it works, how it does that?

Ian Yeah. Well, you know, one of the things that I think separates this is like, we’re very, on the surface of it. We want the AI to be visible. And that the way that we’re working really informs what’s happening on stage, the type of content that we’re creating. And, you know, the, the papers, the, the AI and festivals report that we highlighted at the beginning of the episode is, you know, it’s rooted in this, this doing AI differently white paper and an approach that’s coming out of the Turing Institute. And this is really about rethinking what our relationship is with AI, which is what we’ve been advocating for with a lot of the use and why there’s so much research that’s that’s associated with what we’re doing, really that same sort of white paper really is part of the methodological backbone of AI campfire return and mirrored a lot of what we were doing with original AI campfire and how that related to or thinking about like, how are these AI systems going to be impacting our relationship with the past and the and the environment? And then how does that come into that work creation as well? It’s really then about looking at plural futurities, like we’re really working against oftentimes very frustrated with working against this idea of like the way that it flattens culture and the way that it sort of resolves to very like final points. And we’re trying to bring back the ambiguity and trying to understand what stories get encoded and how it’s about like, who’s in the room when that happens, what responsibilities that the artists and the creators carry along with that. So you’ll be seeing a lot of interesting stuff. I think that’s coming out of the way that we are approaching AI in the most ethical way possible. You know, working offline, local computational power. So we’re not using large data centers, really being conscious and, and specific about the model use that’s there. Doing all the footprinting associated with that part of our development process is, you know, very strategically touring around to collect our data. So that like previous versions, like all of the writing is us. All the foundational visual material is us. All the music is made by humans. Like there is AI in there, right? And the conversation with it that, that it, it is really about that, that you not just letting it happen to us.

Vanesa Yeah. And I think, I think there’s also a lot to be said about the first AI Campfire because he has to work. Because he has a story to say, to tell. And it was the first time that we could face artistic events around the world and say, well, this is what we’re doing with a campfire. This is an exploration of many software texture media that we’ve used, and we’ve put it together, and we’re going to continue doing that with future AI campfire versions. This one we are looking to, you know, like you said, use the local AI models, try to change the story, trying to use different organ, as many mixed media as we can so that we can then create something that is useful for everyone to say, okay, well, what did they use? How can we use that? Should we use that? And these are questions that, you know, many, many people have, but they don’t have somewhere to, you know, to check or to refer back to. So this is what we’re also trying to do with AI campfire. So the first campfire has toured, toured Chicago, Toronto, Malta. Now we also have a cinematic adaptation to it, which has been selected for film festivals in Italy, in the UAE, and the. We’re also going to be screening this in a Brazilian platform. Tell us a bit more about this.

Ian Oh yeah. We’re now forming a partner. And this is where we’re looking at this, both from the Venue 13side and the AI campfire side is that it’s an immersive online platform. So it’s like you take on an avatar and you’re going into a 3D space, which can be done through like headsets or on, on monitor for streaming. And so it’s like a participatory, it’s around performance too. So it’s trying to create the performance around it. And we’re also using this as a foundation for looking at ways of opening up access to the festival through digital content from Brazil, where it’s harder for people to come over in partnership with venue thirteen. That’s sort of like hybrid approach is really key to what we’re doing. So it’s, it’s also articulating This really specific perspective that we’re taking on. What does it mean to program things and working with our partners on the not for profit side, the CcpA, the center for Sustainable Practice in the Arts in Canada, and then future thirteen, which are in the process of developing here of like, how do we how do we move work around that’s digital and actually have it be present at the, at the festival as well, and therefore also adding on to our own effectively world tour of, of the piece one hundred percent.

Vanesa And because this piece, the campfire return, is still in development, we are looking for anyone who wants to join and has suggestions on how to make it more special, more interesting, more mixed. So for our collaborations into this project, do contact us. We will leave a contact link in the description. And and that was, that was the whole program. Tickets are now on sale at Venue 13dot com. Don’t miss the chance to laugh and reflect with us at twenty thirteen. Book your tickets early so you can start joining in on the fringe excitement with us. There will be relaxed performances, there will be BSL interpretation, there will be digital screening via either a twenty thirteen platform or the ETF we do platform, which we will leave the link for that in the description as well.

Ian Please don’t sleep on any of this because you know that’s a full programme. We’re hardly some of the larger venues that have hundreds of shows. We have the one space and generally we have fifty seats now. Drum and bass has fewer because you got to have everybody move around for it. So we can’t have fifty. You’re not seated, so we can’t have fifty seats there. And we’re actually still working on anchoring down the precise number of seats within Shakespeare days, because it’s immersive and people are moving around making sure that that’s taken care of. But that means that there’s even more limited tickets there. So if any of this sounds exciting to you, know that we’re a small, medium sized venue, which is great for the artists so that they can then fill up and have people supporting them. Please do that.

Vanesa Absolutely.

Ian To avoid disappointment.

Vanesa Yeah, I agree with you, Ian. And this is a segue onto the next episode. I do believe we should start with the type of fringe goers. I think that should be a fantastic topic for our next episode, because I have met people that like to plan ahead and they like to book their things in advance. But I also have met many people that say, I just want to go in without a plan. I’m going to walk about, get a flyer and hope for the best. And I think we should actually start next week’s, you know, next episode with that and be like, which one do you think is better? Pros and cons of each style.

Isla Cowan is an award winning playwright, performer and director from Scotland.

Ian It is time for our regular CCTA segment which will continue. We’re going to start talking to each of the individual shows, so you’ll hear more from them. And just know that sometimes that reading might be replaced by an excerpt from their show. So we’ll get a little bit of a preview there. You still have a dramatic reading in there. I just might be a preview instead. But right now we’re going to bridge back all the way back to fringe twenty twenty five, when we were hosting the CCTA and getting through all the shows. And we’re going to be reading here is The Long Now by Isla Cowan, who actually came to the CCTA because of our relationship with the traverse, which was an artist in residence at the traverse. And so when we were looking to commission as part of the CCTA, I helped run that too. So that’s where we are coming from. But when we were looking to commission just ten plays for the tenth anniversary of the CCTA. We wanted it because we were going to be doing this in partnership and presenting all of them to focus on Scottish writers and artists working in Scotland. So that’s how here in the long now that that ended up getting written, and it’s one of the few one of ten new plays that was part of the twenty twenty five others were, um, greatest hits. Isla Cowan says this play is inspired by the idea of chrono washing, which has been proposed and developed by academic Michel Bastian and represents a temporal version of greenwashing. Whilst global corporations claim to support long term planetary scale thinking and sustainability, they engage in business practices that encourage short term consumerism and rely on fast paced production processes, both of which result in significant environmental damage, such as plastic waste and pollution. This play dramatizes these tensions of time and responds with a provocation to the audience. So there’s a cast which is not. There’s three different roles we’re going to play. Both of them. Uh, they could be played by one or more actors. We’ve got the sellers, the workers, and the clock maker. So this can be performed by companies of any size and scale. We’re going to, uh, it does say that it requires at least three actors, but we’re going to, we’re going to try it anyway. For smaller companies, actors can multi-role between the parts, which is how we’re going to pull it off today. The sellers function like a chorus. Lines may be assigned to individuals and smaller groups at the director’s discretion, to create a cacophony of consumer voices. These lines should run at a pace, and the director may find further opportunities for interruption and overlap. So I think we’re both going to try and be the sellers. Do you want to be a worker or clock maker?

Vanesa Oh, we both read the centers together.

Ian Yeah, yeah. Let’s try.

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Ian A bell starts ringing. Workers in a warehouse. A production line. The workers package plastic items into cardboard boxes. They pass them along. Tape them up, pass them along. Slap on an address sticker and pass them along. At the end of the production line, the final worker opens the boxes and scatters all the plastic packaging and the waste all over the stage. This is repeated until the stage is covered in waste. Meanwhile, the other workers pack fashion faster to keep up. They become frantic, breathless. The clock bell rings louder and louder. In the year four thousand, you’ll go see this clock. And you’ll wonder, why on.

Both Earth did you build.

Vanesa This?

Ian This worker collapses. End of play.

Vanesa Ten episodes, eleven shows out. We could not be more proud of this twenty twenty six program.

Ian She said. Tickets are on sale now on the website at venue dot com. We’ve got a fantastic lineup, and I’m sure several of these shows are going to be selling fast.

Vanesa And if any of what we’ve talked about today resonated with you, please share this episode, share the program, tag the companies, and tell a friend who loves theatre. Something special is happening at Venue 13this August.

Ian Thank you for listening. Thank you for sticking with us for ten episodes.

Vanesa And here’s to the next ten. See you next time.

Ian Thanks for listening to this week’s episode. If you enjoyed the conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you never miss an update. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. We’d love it if you take a moment to leave us a review. We’d love to hear from you. We’re really excited about this program coming out. We want to know what your thoughts are. You’re going to hear from all those artists coming up and helping us with reviews and sharing this podcast is a big help to help get the word out about this really special program. If you’ve got thoughts, questions, or ideas for future episodes, we’d love to hear from you. You can reach us at podcast@venue13.com, across social media, @venue13fringe. Our back episodes and transcripts can be found on our website under the podcast menu at venue13.com. The music you heard today and throughout the episode is by Dusty Decks, and we license that through Epidemic Sound. This episode, CCTA play, was here in The Long Now by Isla Cowan. Until next time. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll be back with another episode in about a week.